Seahorse Club
Aquarium & Livestock

Feed Ezy Frozen Mysis

Seahorse Club
Aquarium & Livestock

Feed Ezy Frozen Mysis

Seahorse Club
Aquarium & Livestock

Feed Ezy Frozen Mysis

Seahorse Club
Aquarium & Livestock

Feed Ezy Frozen Mysis

Seahorse Club
Aquarium & Livestock

Feed Ezy Frozen Mysis

Seahorse Club
Aquarium & Livestock

Feed Ezy Frozen Mysis

Cloudy Eye

Viewing 6 posts - 1 through 6 (of 6 total)
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  • #1344
    Tammie
    Member

    I posted earlier this week \"sick tank syndrome …\". The formalin dip was a success. The cottony stuff on my seahorse\’s fin disappeared, my male is his usual self and the one with the cloudy eye has started eating on her own again, but her eye is still cloudy.
    I have taken a couple of photographs of her, one on her good side and one of the cloudy eye. I am not sure how to post them here. I actually took about 50 photos to get two really good ones that show the cloudy eye clearly. Seahorses rarely stay still.

    So far I have treated her with Myxicin, triple sulfa, fw dips x 2 and a formalin dip. The formalin dip has shown the best results. Is it worth giving her another formalin dip now that I have a little more confidence? It has been just over 48 hours since she had the first one.

    Thank you again.

    Tammie

    #3956
    Pete Giwojna
    Guest

    Dear Tammie:

    Thanks for the update. It’s good to hear that your seahorses tolerated the formalin bath well and are showing clear signs of improvement. It’s encouraging that the cottony stuff on the seahorse’s fin has cleared up and that the female with the cloudy eye has started eating on her own again.

    Here is a copy of the post from John that explains how to post photos on this particular forum, Tammie:

    <Open quote>
    Hi Christine ,

    1st you have to host it somewhere like photobucket or in my case AOLmyspace
    but you must make it small as the board will only take a small photo.

    You click on the orange Img tag in the reply window and add your address of the hosted PIC etc.. Wherever.com ewseahorse.jpg

    Make sure to hit the close all tags tab after you are finished and then preveiew your post to see if it worked that way you can keep trying till you get it right without posting.

    An image resize tool is very helpful.

    For a larger image you could add a link with URL tab to the hosted photo. In some cases it will not work for all people but will for others it will (I never understood that ) prob an AOL issue in my case!

    HTH,

    John
    <Close quote>

    In the meantime, the formalin can be administered as a series of baths if necessary to resolve a particular problem. But the formalin treatments are stressful for the fish, so it’s best to give them a break between the formalin dips. When formalin is concerned, 48 hours is the minimum amount of time I would consider between baths, and Kordon recommends spacing the treatments a full week apart. In your case, Tammie, I would say you can safely consider administering another formalin bath to the female with the cloudy eye after 48 hours have elapsed, providing you follow all of the usual precautions, as discussed below:

    Formalin Baths

    Formalin (HCHO) is basically a 37% solution of formaldehyde and water. It is a potent external fungicide, external protozoacide, and antiparasitic, and is thus an effective medication for eradicating external parasites, treating fungal lesions, and reducing the swelling from such infections. It is a wonder drug for treating cases of Popeye caused by trematodes, and also eradicates external nematodes.

    In my experience, provided it is administered properly, seahorses tolerate treatment with formalin very well at therapeutic dosages. For a long term bath the correct dose is 15 to 25 mg/L. [Note: 25 mg/L equals 1 ml (cc) of 37% formalin per 10 gallons of water.] This is done every other day for 3 treatments.

    For a short term bath (dip) the correct dose is 250 mg/L. This would equal 1 ml (cc) of 37% formalin per 1 gallon of water. This should be for about 45 minutes to 1 hour. In my opinion, formalin is a safe, effective treatment for parasitic infections in seahorses providing you don’t exceed these dosages and observe the following precautions for administering the medication properly:

    Many commercial formalin products are readily available to hobbyists, such as Kordon’s Formalin 3, Formalin-F sold by Natchez Animal Supply, and Paracide-F, sold by Argent go to top Chemical Laboratories. Or whatever brand of formalin is available at your fish store should work fine.

    A formalin bath simply involves immersing the seahorse in a container of saltwater which contains the proper dosage of formalin for a period of 30-60 minutes before transferring it to your hospital tank. Include a hitching post of some sort in the container and follow these instructions: place the fish in a three-gallon bucket or a similar clean, inert container containing precisely one gallon of siphoned, aerated tank water. Medicate the bucket of water with with the appropriate amount of formalin for a concentrated bath according to the directions on the label. Place an airstone in the bucket and leave the fish in the bath for 30 minutes. If at any time the fish becomes listless, exhausted or loses its balance, immediately place the fish in clean, untreated water in your hospital tank.

    I want you to be aware of these precautions when administering the formalin bath:

    Formalin has limited shelf life and degrades to the highly toxic substance paraformaldehyde (identified as a white precipitate on the bottom of the solution); avoid using any formalin product which has such a precipitate at the bottom of the bottle.

    Formalin basically consumes oxygen so vigorous aeration must be provided during treatment.

    Time the bath closely and never exceed one hour of chemical exposure at this concentration.

    Observe the seahorse closely during the bath at all times, and it show signs of distress before the allotted time has elapsed, remove it from the treatment immediately.

    If you can obtain Formalin 3 from Kordon at your LFS, these are the instructions you should follow for your formalin dip:

    METHOD 2 (DIP) FOR THE PREVENTION OR TREATMENT OF FISH DISEASES

    (a) To a clean, non-metallic container (i.e., a plastic bucket), add one or more gallons of fresh tap water treated with Kordon’s AmQuel . For marine fish use freshly prepared saltwater adjusted to the same specific gravity (or salinity) as in the original tank. Make sure the temperature in the container is identical to that in the aquarium

    (b) Add 1 teaspoons of Formalin·3. This produces a concentration of 100 ppm. formaldehyde.

    (c) Agitate the solution with an airstone and adjust for a moderately strong flow of air.

    (d) Remove the fishes to be treated and deposit them in the container for a treatment period of not more than 50 minutes. Immediately after the treatment period, or if signs of distress are noted, remove the fishes to a previously prepared recovery tank. The fishes may be returned to their original tank, but the presence of the original disease-causing agents in the tank water may result in a reoccurrence of the disease condition.

    (e) Observe recovering fishes. Make sure that tankmates do not molest them during recovery.

    (f) Repeat treatment as needed, every week. Each treatment is very stressful to the treated fishes. Do not reuse the dip solution.

    For additional information on treating fishes with Formalin 3 by Kordon, see the following web page:

    Click here: KPD-54 Formalin-3
    http://www.novalek.com/kpd54.htm

    If you get another brand of formalin, just follow the instructions that it comes with for a concentrated bath or dip (not prolonged immersion or a long-term bath).

    Best of luck restoring your seahorses to good health again, Tammie!

    Respectfully,
    Pete Giwojna

    #3958
    Tammie
    Guest

    I gave the seahorse her second Formalin dip today. She tolerated it very well and I coped much better also. I left her in for 47 minutes. About two hours after the dip she swam to the usual eating corner. I hand/target fed her about 6 or 7 mysis shrimp. She also ate very well this evening.

    The cloudly eye is still a bit bigger than her normal eye.

    Just another quick question: do you ship products to Australia?

    Regards

    Tammie

    BTW: I think my male may be in foal. He was really flirting over the past couple of days and now he has stopped. He has also stopped opening his pouch. I just get the tank healthy and now I need to get ready for the young ones.

    #3959
    Pete Giwojna
    Guest

    Dear Tammie:

    It sounds like a female with a cloudy eye is coming along. With a hearty appetite, she should be getting plenty of nutrition to keep her strength up and help her recover.

    I hadn’t realized that the affected eye was also enlarged compared her unaffected eye. Exopthalmia and cloudiness often occur together, which makes me think the problem may have been the result of eye trauma in this case, Tammie, as discussed below:

    <Open quote>
    "We have already described the enormously enlarged, bulging eyes that are so characteristic of this disfiguring affliction in the section devoted to gas bubble syndrome. When both eyes are affected (bilateral Exopthalmia), vision and depth perception is adversely affected, making it difficult for the seahorse to accurately track and strike at its prey (Giwojna, Aug. 2003). This may leave the affected seahorse unable to feed.

    Popeye is ordinarily not at all contagious, and there is typically no danger of it spreading to the rest of the herd (Giwojna, Aug. 2003). As described below, a number of physical injuries, environmental factors, noninfectious and infectious diseases can cause Popeye to develop. In my experience, it can be the result of eye trauma, parasitic infestation, gas embolisms forming in the choroid rete behind the eye (a manifestation of Gas Bubble Syndrome), and rarely as a symptom of internal infection (Giwojna, Aug. 2003).

    Eye trauma: eye trauma can result from a scratch, scrape or bruise to the eyeball suffered during fighting, netting, handling, or swimming (Giwojna, Aug. 2003). In seahorses, it most often results when rival males snap at one other while competing for mates. When snapping at its adversary, a male will incline his head towards his rival and point his tubular snout directly at him, lining up his victim in his sights exactly as if staring down the barrel of a rifle. Once satisfied with his aim, the male will cock his head downwards and pull the trigger, delivering a sharp blow with a powerful upward ”snap” of its snout (Giwojna, Aug. 2003). The snap is usually directed at the gill cover or eye of the opponent — the only vulnerable spots or chinks in an armor-plated adversary’s exoskeleton (Giwojna, Aug. 2003).

    Eye injuries from sparring seahorses are uncommon, but they have certainly been known to happen, as I have personally witnessed on a few occasions. Suspect eye trauma as the cause of the Popeye when only one eye is affected (unilateral Exopthalmia) and the water quality and aquarium parameters check out fine (Giwojna, Aug. 2003). Surprisingly, when Popeye results from eye trauma, the seahorse often appears relatively undistressed by its bulging eye and grotesque injury (Giwojna, Aug. 2003). It often remains in good appetite, eats well, remains active, and generally behaves as though nothing out of the ordinary has happened (Giwojna, Aug. 2003). It may continue to court or even mate in spite of its condition.

    In such cases, the Popeye will often resolve itself if the seahorse is left to its own devices in the display tank and the injury is allowed to heal on its own (Giwojna, Aug. 2003). Attempting to net it or otherwise remove the seahorse for treatment risks further aggravating the trauma or causing additional irritation to the eye. The enlarged eye will deflate as the injury heals, which may take anywhere from several days to several weeks depending on the severity of the trauma (Giwojna, Aug. 2003). In minor cases, it’s often best just to let the seahorse be.

    However, as with any such injury, there is always a danger of secondary infections. To protect the seahorse against such complications, consider bioencapsulating or gut-loading live food (adult brine shrimp, red feeder shrimp from Hawaii, ghost shrimp, etc.) with a good broad-spectrum antibiotic such as kanamycin, minocycline, or nifurpirinol + neomycin and continue feeding the medicated shrimp to the seahorses until the eye has healed (Giwojna, Aug. 2003)." <Close quote>

    Formalin baths are especially helpful when the Exopthalmia is the results of parasites such as trematodes or eye flukes, and antibiotic therapy is also beneficial when the Exopthalmia is accompanied by cloudiness. Let me know if you think it would be helpful to add a good broad-spectrum antibiotic to your treatment regimen for the female with the eye problem, Tammie, and I will be happy to provide you with more detailed instructions for bioencapsulating the medication so that it can be used safely in your main tank.

    And, of course, you can always continue the series of formalin baths as long as the seahorse is tolerating them well and responding to the treatments favorably.

    Unfortunately, Ocean Rider only ships within the Continental United States.

    I think you may be correct regarding the male. When the dancelike courtship displays and especially the pouch displays suddenly stop, that can indeed be an indication that mating and the transfer of eggs has been accomplished, so it’s quite possible that your male may be pregnant. Here’s hoping he presents you with a brood of healthy young.

    Best of luck healing up your female’s swollen, cloudy eye, Tammie!

    Respectfully,
    Pete Giwojna

    #3960
    Tammie
    Guest

    Thank you again Pete

    I suspected some sort of trauma, she has had the cloudy and swollen eye for a couple of months now. If I leave it for too long, she loses her appetite so whatever it is, it is causing her some distress. Could this be secondary infection? If you don’t mind, can you send me the instructions for encapsulating shrimp. This seems like a good option. If you are interested, I can send you the pictures of her eyes. I appreciate that you are busy, so not offended if you don’t have time. I have tried to post them following the instructions in the thread with no luck.

    She is eating very well now but I have to put the food behind her, she doesn’t seem to see it when it is in front of her. Also, she stalks her shrimp from underneath and has a very loud snick. The good news is that she is eating a lot of them and I am happy to feed her as much as she wants.

    She has never been a good eater. She was vrey small and scrawny when she arrived and it was difficult to get her to eat. A mix of hand and force feeding has kept her going but she is still much smaller than the other two H. Kudas.

    I was told that I was buying captive bred seahorses, but I am not so sure with her. I am very sad to think that she had a happy life in the ocean and now she is stuck in my aquarium so I will do my best to make it worth her while.

    Cheers

    Tammie

    #3964
    Pete Giwojna
    Guest

    Dear Tammie:

    Yes, I think a secondary infection may have set in following a mechanical injury to the female’s eye, and that is most likely what is causing the cloudiness. Administering a broad-spectrum antibiotic orally via gutloaded live shrimp should be helpful in clearing up the problem.

    Gut-loading (i.e., bioencapsulation) simply means to fill live shrimp up with medication by feeding them food that’s been soaked in the desired medication. Once the feeder shrimp are full of the medicated food — that is, their guts are loaded with it — they are immediately fed to the seahorses, which thus consume the medication along with the shrimp. It’s a neat way to trick seahorses into taking their medicine, just as our moms used to do when we were little, crushing up pills in a spoonful of jelly or jam. Another term for gut-loading is bioencapsulation, since the medication is neatly contained within a living organism rather than a capsule. Gut-loading allows the seahorses to be treated in their main tank, where they are completely at home, surrounded by their tankmates and the rest of the herd, and is thus a very stress-free form of treatment.

    The easiest way to administer antibiotics orally is by bioencapsulating or gutloading them in live shrimp, which are then fed to the seahorses. I prefer adult brine shrimp (Artemia spp.) for this for a number of reasons. For one thing, adult Artemia are inexpensive and readily available to the home hobbyist. Secondly, soaking live adult brine shrimp in a solution of the antibiotics as described below is by far the simplest and most convenient way to bioencapsulate antibiotics. Thirdly, a much wider range of antibiotics are effective when bio-encapsulated in live brine shrimp and administer it orally than can be used effectively as bath treatments for marine fish.

    The recommended dosage of antibiotic for this procedure varies between 100-250 mg per liter or about 400-1000 mg per gallon of water. (Personally, I prefer to use the higher dosages when gutloading.) Stay within the suggested range and you should be all right.

    If the antibiotic you are using comes in tablet rather than capsule form, crush it into a very fine powder (you may have to use a household blender to get it fine enough) and dissolve it in freshwater at the dosage suggested above. Soak the adult brine shrimp in freshwater treated with the antibiotic for 15-30 minutes and then feed the medicated shrimp to your seahorses immediately. (Don’t let your pumps and filters "eat" all the brine shrimp!)

    The brine shrimp are soaked in freshwater, not saltwater, because in theory the increased osmotic pressure of the freshwater helps the antibiotic solution move into their bodies via osmosis. But in fact nobody knows for sure whether the antibiotic is diffusing into the brine shrimp or they are ingesting it in very fine particles (brine shrimp are filter feeders and will take in whatever is suspended in the water with them) or whether the brine shrimp merely become coated with the antibiotic while they are soaking in it. But that’s not important — all that really matters is that gut-loading adult brine shrimp with medications this way is effective.

    As previously mentioned, bioencapsulating the adult brine shrimp in freshwater also greatly increases the range of antibiotics you can use for gutloading. Many antibiotics are ineffective when used as baths in saltwater because they don’t dissolve well in hard water at a pH > 8.0, or aren’t absorbed well through the skin and gills of fish, or because they combine with the carbonates in saltwater and are thus rendered inactive, or all of the above. That is why the marine dose for most antibiotics is much stronger than the dosage recommended for use in freshwater, but increasing the dosage only partially counteracts these problems.

    The tetracyclines are a good example of this phenomenon. Although tetracycline and oxytetracycline generally work very well when administered orally, they are all but useless when used as bath treatments for marine fish. This is because the calcium and magnesium in hard water or saltwater binds to tetracycline and oxytetracycline, rendering them inactive (Yanong, US Dept. of Agriculture). In addition, tetracycline and oxytetracycline are photosensitive drugs and will decompose when exposed to light. So these drugs are very useful for seahorses when they are administered via bioencapsulation, but they are quite ineffective when added to the water in a saltwater aquarium (Yanong, USDA).

    I would recommend feeding the female with the cloudy eyes in your aquarium one meal a day of live adult brine shrimp that has been bioencapsulated with antibiotics as described above, along with one feeding of Vibrance-enriched frozen Mysis each day. That will ensure that your seahorses get a daily dose of the antibiotics as well as a daily dose of beta-glucan to boost their immune systems.

    Best of luck clearing up your female’s eye problem, Tammie!

    Respectfully,
    Pete Giwojna

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