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Thrashing versus Dancing

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  • #42577
    yellowseahorseclub
    Participant

    Hello Pete!

    I have another question. My H. Barbouri is dancing a lot lately but I noticed today she twitched or thrashed. I’d like to treat her for worms in case that’s the case. Which could happen due to a spotted goby I introduced to the tank.

    You mentioned that freshwater dips are really hard on that species. Can you provide alternatives to that in case she does have worms?

    Thanks,
    TJ

    #42620
    Pete Giwojna
    Moderator

    Dear TJ:

    If you suspect you be dealing with a problem with worms, the best option is to feed the seahorses with adult brine shrimp that have been soaked in fenbendazole (brand name Panacur).

    Fenbendazole (i.e., Panacur) is an inexpensive anthelmintic agent (dewormer) used for large animals such as horses, and the de-worming granules can be obtained without a prescription from stores that carry agricultural products (e.g., farm and ranch equipment, farming supplies and products, veterinary supplies, livestock and horse supplies, livestock and horse feed). If you live in a rural area, those would be good places to obtain it.

    I usually get my granular fenbendazole (brand name Panacur) from KV Vet Supply as well. They use to sell it in small packets of 5.2 g as well as larger quantities and didn’t paste form.

    You can get it at Petco in liquid form. Just copy the following URL, paste it in your web browser, and press “Enter”:

    http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4615+4629+12101&pcatid=12101

    And here is a copy of the Shedd Aquarium’s Quarantine Protocol for seahorses that shows how they use Panacur to cleanse their new ponies:

    Shedd Aquarium Seahorse Quarantine Protocol
    Feb 2000

    The following schedule sets out the basic quarantine schedule for seahorses entering the John G. Shedd Aquarium. Application dates and specifics can be modified if it is deemed necessary.

    Chloroquine used to be part of the quarantine process but has been discontinued as a result of sensitivity.

    Seahorse quarantine = 30 days

    (1) Panacur In Artemia adults or nauplii: soak at 250mg Panacur /kg food and feed out as per normal food over 3 days. Artemia can be used to gut-load other food types if necessary. Start treatment on day 10 through 13 and repeat on day 20 through 23.

    (2) Praziquantel bath at 10ppm for 3 hours or 1ppm for 24 hours on Day 29.

    (3) Vaccine (Alpha-Dip 2100): dip at 1 part vaccine to 9 parts water for 20 to 30 secs on Day 7 and repeat on day 14.

    (4) Diagnostic dip — Osmotic (freshwater) dip on Day 30.

    (5) DHADC Selco as an addition to normal food. Soak prior to feeding as per label instructions) on Days 1 through 7.

    But there are a couple of things you should keep in mind when treating an aquarium with fenbendazole, TJ. Administering a regimen of fenbendazole (FBZ) or Panacur will eradicate any nematodes, hydroids, Aiptasia rock anemones, or bristleworms from live rock or live sand, thereby rendering them completely seahorse safe. The recommended dose is 1/8 teaspoon of the horse dewormer granules (22.2% fenbendazole) per 10 gallons of water. Dose the live rock with 1/8 teaspoon/10 gallons every other day until you have administered a total of 3 such treatments (Liisa Coit, pers. com.). Even one dose will do a fine job of eradicating bristeworms, but Aiptasia rock anemones and hydroids are a bit tougher and may require 2-3 doses to eliminate entirely.

    Because fenbendazole is essentially a de-worming agent, it will destroy any bristleworms, flat worms, spaghetti worms or the like. The FBZ or Panacur treatments are best administered to the live rock in a bucket or hospital tank before the LR is introduced in the main tank. Otherwise, the massive die-off of the worm population in the aquarium may require large water changes in order to prevent a dangerous ammonia spike! And after the treatment is completed, it’s a good idea to add a portion of newly purchased live sand to the system in order to help restore its normal diversity of fauna and microfauna again (Liisa Coit, pers. com.).

    Fenbendazole does not have any adverse effects on biological filtration, but be aware that it is death to many Cnidarians besides hydroids. Mushrooms and related corals are generally not affected, but expect it to have dire effects on other corals (e.g., sinularias), polyps, gorgonians, and anemones. In general, any Cnidarians with polyps that resemble the stalked family of Hydrozoans are likely to be hit hard by fenbendazole, so don’t use this treatment in a reef tank!

    Also be aware that fenbendazole seems to soak into the porous live rock and be absorbed indefinitely. I know one hobbyist who transferred a small piece of live rock that had been treated with fenbendazole (Panacur) months earlier into a reef tank, where it killed the resident starfish and Astrea snails. So enough of the medication may be retained within treated live rock to impact sensitive animals months after the fenbendazole was administered. Don’t treat live rock intended for reef systems with fenbendazole (Panacur)!

    At the lower dosage recommended for nursery tanks and dwarf seahorse tanks with fry (1/16 tsp. per 10 gallons), fenbendazole normally does not harm cleaner shrimp and decorative shrimp. With the exception of Astrids (Astrea), Coit and Worden have found it does not usually affect the types of snails typically used as cleanup crews (e.g., Nassarius, Ceriths, and Nerites). It will kill starfish but copepods, hermit crabs, and shrimp are normally not affected.

    Macroalgae such as the feathery or long-bladed varieties of Caulerpa or Hawaiian Ogo (Gracilaria) are not harmed by exposure to fenbendazole at even triple the normal dose. In fact, if you will be using Caulerpa in your nursery tanks to provide hitching posts for the fry and serve as a form of natural filtration, it’s a very wise precaution indeed to treat them with a regimen of fenbendazole beforehand.

    So fenbendazole (FBZ) or Panacur is primarily useful for ridding bare-bottomed nursery tanks and dwarf seahorses setups of hyrdroids and Aiptasia anemones, ridding Caulerpa and other macroalge of hydroids or Aiptasia before its goes into the aquarium, and cleansing live rock of bristleworms, hydroids, and Aiptasia rock anemones before it is introduced to the aquarium.

    It can also be used to eradicate nematodes, bristleworms, hydroids, an Aiptasia from an established aquarium if it does not house sensitive animals such as live corals and gorgonians, starfish, Astrea snails, or tubeworms and other desirable worms that may be harmed by FBZ, providing you monitor the ammonia levels closely and are prepared to deal with the ammonia spike that may result from the sudden death of the worm population.

    Best wishes with all your fishes, TJ!

    Respectfully,
    Pete Giwojna, Ocean Rider Tech Support

    #42644
    yellowseahorseclub
    Participant

    Thank you Pete,

    Few questions though. These are methods in order to treat the seahorses.

    1. Will I have to treat the Spotty Goby?
    2. Will I have to treat the display tank as well in addition to the 30 day deworming?
    3. Can the worms survive when I am treating the seahorses in the display tank?
    3. Will this affect my pod population?
    4. How long do I need to gut load the live brine if I use liquid Pancur?

    I’ve treated the tank with MetroPlex and have been soaking mysis with Metroplex w/ Focus so far. I have two Certh Snails and 2 camel shrimps.

    Thankfully, their appetite is still present.
    Thanks,
    TJ

    #42655
    Pete Giwojna
    Moderator

    Dear Chris:

    No, sir, there should be no need to treat the goby.

    The quarantine period recommended by the Shedd Aquarium for wild seahorses is 30 days but that’s not how long you need to administer the fenbendazole to treat your seahorses for worms. One treatment with the fenbendazole added directly to the water is sufficient to eliminate worms from the aquarium, and a few days of feeding them adult brine shrimp soaked in fenbendazole should do the trick.

    Fenbendazole shouldn’t have any affect on copepods are Gammarus amphipods since it’s a dewormer.

    I use fenbendazole soaked Artemia (adult brine shrimp). Protocol is 0.25grams fenben per 100grams of wet weight Artemia in sufficient H2O to allow the Artemia to live. I should think that just a few days of feeding them the adult brine shrimp soaked in fenbendazole should suffice to cleanse them both worms, Chris.

    The snails and camel shrimp are excellent tankmates for seahorses, sir.

    Good luck!

    Respectfully,
    Pete Giwojna, Ocean Rider Tech Support

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